TheBassPlayer
Full Brotherhood Member
Post Rock with Bollocks
Posts: 46
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Post by TheBassPlayer on Nov 23, 2004 8:12:24 GMT -5
I would suggest getting your hand on the Jazz Theory Book.... it takes you through from the very basics of intervals, chords etc to the much harder re-harmonisation and the like.....takes you through everything, absolutely everything, well laid out easy to read. Its a bit pricey but well worth! www.jazzwise.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=859
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Post by HowardK on Nov 23, 2004 8:36:24 GMT -5
I agree, it's a fantastic book... but probably a bit daunting for someone new to theory, in my opinion of course.
I'd recommend a teacher above anything else. I know it can be hard to find a good teacher, but I'm positive there are great players/ teachers in every town, you just have to find them!
I would suggest going to gigs and asking bass players if they're either teach or know a good teacher.
Lessons are expensive - I charge £20 which is pretty much a minimum - but if you wanna get better you have to sacrifice the beer?!
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Post by hatman on Nov 23, 2004 9:22:30 GMT -5
The route into learning about harmony is the C Major scale. The notes are C D E F G A B C. Nice one Howard and for those of you who were wondering how the major scale is constructed (just in case you wanted to know how to construct, for instance, an EMaj chord) here it is(sorry if I'm teaching anyone to suck eggs): There are twelve notes A, A#/Bb, B, C, C#/Db, D, D#/Eb, E, F, F#/Gb, G, G#/Ab. The "space" between each of these notes is called a semitone (or halfstep) and the space between two is called a tone (or wholestep). If this is applied to the bass a semitone is the space between one fret and a tone is two frets. Try it on your A string: open = A, 1st fret = A#, second fret = B etc. The major scale is constructed thus: Tone Tone Semitone Tone Tone Tone SemitoneThis make the A major scale A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G#, A. A to B is two frets or a tone as is B to C#, C# to D is one fret or a semitone and so on. Now you can go back to Howard's lesson and work out what the notes are in a C#maj7 chord are.
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Post by BootsySkid on Nov 23, 2004 9:26:25 GMT -5
i'm at grade three on bass and understand quite bit on theory, its the Rhythms that throw me....reading and tapping rhythms....Any tips on that guys.
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Post by HowardK on Nov 23, 2004 9:28:05 GMT -5
This is like a comedy duo... except very very serious Naah, good post. I assumed everyone was up to speed on where notes were found on the fretboard. Again having someone show you these things in person is ideal if possible
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Post by hatman on Nov 23, 2004 9:38:20 GMT -5
I assumed everyone was up to speed on where notes were found on the fretboard. I'm sure everyone is but the idea was to show how to construct a major scale. I always used to get frustrated at all theory being centered around the Cmajor scale so I learned how it was constructed so I could make all the triads from any of them.
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Post by HowardK on Nov 23, 2004 9:40:24 GMT -5
Well, at grade 3 your reading (unless you're doing rockschool andusing tab?) is probably as good as mine!
I tend to do a lot of my rhythm practice away from the bass. For example - and this will sound ridiculous -while walking. When you're walking it's easy to keep a constant beat with your pace.. so it's the ideal time to sing rhythms to yourself in your head.
I've been working on learning to 'feel' 3 over 2 a lot stronger recently, and 2 over 3, 4 over 3 etc, etc
I must admit, I find reading rhythms dififcult (but them my reading is very poor), I find it a lot easier to pick them up by ear.
Are there any specific rhythms that you have trouble with, or is it the reading aspect of it?
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Post by HowardK on Nov 23, 2004 9:42:10 GMT -5
I'm sure everyone is but the idea was to show how to construct a major scale. I always used to get frustrated at all theory being centered around the Cmajor scale so I learned how it was constructed so I could make all the triads from any of them. Aah, I see.. I had the added benefit of my tutor at the time showing me C Major, then immediately telling me I needed to know it 12 keys
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Post by hatman on Nov 23, 2004 9:46:54 GMT -5
How did you learn the other 11 major keys?
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Post by BootsySkid on Nov 23, 2004 9:51:24 GMT -5
yeah i do the same, if there is a constant beat i'll often tap the quavers and Semi quaver beats. i can't get my head around the difference between say 6/8 to 6/4 ie tapping it...i guess it means i'd tap 12 times to each bar....right? 1a2a3a4a5a6a yeah ? and is 6/4 123456?? I've eben lazy and haven't done any reading since i learn't Miles davis So What. Also Q's for Howard...hope you don't mind mate? II V I progression would that mean walking around Dorian, Mixolydian & Aeolian in a key or according to accompanying chords Hope that Q makes sense?? (Please excuse my spelling as i'm a bit thick!) I watched the Jaco DVD this afternoon....think i might throw the Jazz in the Sea later!
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Post by hatman on Nov 23, 2004 10:04:47 GMT -5
For that progression you should play the Ionian for the I. The aeolian would make it minor and the I is always a major chord (assuming you're using a major scale of course).
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Post by HowardK on Nov 23, 2004 10:06:45 GMT -5
Hmm, this one isnt easy to explain... but is pretty easy to hear given the right examples: 6/8 is called 'compound' time. Compound time is where each crochet in the bar is dotted, so has the value of 3 quavers. In this there are two dotted crochets to the bar, hence 6 quavers = 6/8. You would count 6/8 as: 1 & a 2 & a ...and you would feel the downbeat on the 1 and 2 in bold. It's essentailly the same as half a bar of 4/4 time made up of quaver triplets.. if that helps Another example of compound time would be 12/8 which has four dotted crochets to the bar... 6/4 is not compound time, so each crochet is not dotted. There are six crochets to the bar, so you would count: 1 2 3 4 5 6 - the downbeats could be anywhere, but are most likely to to on the1, 3 and 5. 6/8 and 6/4 feel different. 6/8 has a triplet feel, whereas 6/4 doesnt neccessarily. II-V-I refers to the roman numerals used for the chords in my post earlier. Where II-V-I is a common progression, the II leads into the tension of the V, which resolves to the I, the tonic. It's worth learning these chords on bass/ piano/ guitar, so you can hear that sound So in the example of C Major: D-7 ¦ G7 ¦ CMaj7 The most common modes to use would be D Dorian, G Mixolydian and C Ionian (C Major). and tis no bother, helps make it clearer in my mind at the same time
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Post by HowardK on Nov 23, 2004 10:10:00 GMT -5
yes, you're right, by fingerboard shapes = tone, semi-tone intervals.
I did spend a lot of time writing out scales in all twelve keys.. mega nerdy, but it helped.
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Post by BootsySkid on Nov 23, 2004 10:37:28 GMT -5
Thanks howard...it made sense...i did do it on my grades but its been a while. yes 6/8 does have a triplet waltz feel i was just playing some on my bass....just need a folk band to jam it with! Sorry guys on the interval I i mean't Ionian not Aeolian...as i said i'm a bit thick...was a slippage! I know the Aeolian is the Minor. Ok melodic Minors & Harmonic minors where would i use them Soloing??? What are the intervals...i think i know them but can't quite remember (Doh!) Any tips on constructive soloing??? I'm sounding like Hank Marvin on bass at the mo, i only really solo using the modes though...any tips???
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Post by HowardK on Nov 23, 2004 10:52:43 GMT -5
Harmonic and meldoic minor both serve to create a ii-V-i progression in a minor key by raising the 7th degree of the scale.
A Aeolian A B C D E F G
A harmonic minor A B C D E F G#
A meldoic minor A B C D E F# G#
If you harmonise these scales in the same way as the Major scale (building a chord starting on every degree of the scale), you'll see that each has a V7 (dominant chord) built on the 5th degree of the scale - this creates strong resolve back to the tonic.
Generally tho, I think you can get a long way using just Ionian, Dorian and Mixolydian if you're aware of how to use colour tones.
Harmonic and melodic minor have uses, but it is mostly in complex popular music, jazz, prog, etc. You wont find them used often in rock, pop or funk., etc, etc
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