Best Way to practice!!

[GranTorinoBassman]

Forget loads of music theory - Just stick on loads of cds a different one every day and jam with it - It's great for your ear and you learn the fret board notes really quickly

Even better put the radio on and just jam to anything - Even the spice girls. That way you don't know whats coming next and it will keep you on your toes

You have to have an open mind!!

[Donald Romulus]

GranTorino said:

Forget loads of music theory - You have to have an open mind!!

Thats probably both the greatest contradiction AND the worst possible advice i've ever heard in my entire life... How can you completely dismiss music theory?

Tsk tsk...

[GranTorinoBassman]

I wasn't completely dismissing theory - I think you misunderstood, and misconstrued what I said. Why is it the worst advice?? How do you practice?? If thats view at least have some practical advice to back it up!

Do you think someone like Stevie Wonder sat in his room all day learning theory? - No I don't think so!

Theory can be usefull but playing an instrument is a form of artistic expression and I find it very difficult to express myself just by learning scales!!
In a writing context don't you think it is better to write music by ear (ie. playing what you think is good) rather than playing something because thats how a text book told you to do it? Ah, but you don't probably write bass lines because you are too busy learning the 'c' major scale!

[hatman]

Ahh the big theory debate. Listening to CDs is a fantastic way to train your ear but theory is also helpful.
The drummer in my band is very impatient, if we haven't nailed a song in 10mins he moans that we'll never get it. It's easy for the guitarist - he has a chord chart and all he has to do to get it right is play the chords in front of him. I can't play chords like a guitarist so I have to come up with a decent bassline quickly. I could play root notes but would get a bit bored with that after a while so I make sure I know what notes I can play with what chords weather they be Maj7, dominant7 or min7b5 (I also bear in mind that the rules can be,chromatically, broken). If you want to do session work you will also have to learn how to read notation which is theory too.
There is a hell of a lot more to music theoy than scales and theory will not stifle your creativity either (playing nothing other than the C major scale will though ;D)

Love the bass and be happy with your own ability but always, always try to be better than you are. If that means listening to CDs or reading a book or both fine do what suits you now.

Just my £0.02 worth

Peace
Carl

One Day the tables will be turned and Rocco Prestia will ask me how I do that.

[funkyassbassplayer]

to be honnist with al of you i found that i got a book and looked at all the notes and got used to them, then i figured out were things would go etc.

then i spent bout 1 hour a day just playin a scale and getting used to hearing that scale and now i find it easy to eithr write summit or to just tab summit or whatever.

[WeeMann]

Contravertial subject, this one.

Billy Sheehan doesn't know any theory.

Steve Vai knows all there is to know about theory.

Both are damn fine musicians in my opinion - can one be said to be greater than the other due to the way they learn / write their music?

Together it's four hands and one brain with those two.

[Stu of EOE]

I already played an instrument which involved reading before i picked up the bass, so i find it easy for someone to stick sheet music in my face than to just give me a chord sequence! Its ok having a good ear, but if you want to be a session player you will have to know the theory! I did A level music so i believe my reading abilities and my understanding of harmonies is great but when I try and jam to a track it takes me awhile to work out the key and what scales and chords im supposed to be using. I played in a Jazz combo at college last year which i played my fretless, at the same time I was trying to learn about my fretless aswell as improve my ear so I just forgot about theory and just played what I thought sounded right... and it worked!! What most players tend to do is pick up the instrument and train their ear...and later realise the importants of theory, because they have such great knowledge of the instrument they pick up the theory relatively easily. I started the other way round, Over the last year and a half I've really come to know my instrument in a different way, but i still need to get out of the habbit of reading. I would strongly suggest learning at least basic theory and to read music is always a bonus!!

[Graham]

i always use the grand old chestnut: "you have to know the rules before you can break them"

i think, as Stu said, at least a basic understanding of theory can help you a lot. the problem is thought that people learn some theory and then start to stick religiously to the (often comparitively simplistic) ideas that they've learnt - theory should simply give you some good grounding knowledge to work around.

knowledge of scales for example, yeah sticking to major scales can get a bit boring (although at least one of our, that is The Exploits of Elaine's tracks sticks to a major tonality throughout), but it goes so much further than that (im not suggesting that anyone in particular doesn't know this, but some don't). i can't really be arsed to go into detail on second thoughs, but y'know, just try soloing along successfully to a track like John Coltrane's Giant Steps - that changes key between B major, G major and Eb major around every 2 seconds - without any knowledge of theory!

of course, knowing theory won't make you a good musician and its most definately not required to be one - but looked at correctly it can help a fucking lot.

[WeeMann]

Personally, I started learning by ear and then went on to learn theory afterwards.

I have come across people (particularly classical musicians - orchestra players, etc) who can't play unless the fly shit is in front of them.

To me, yes theory is important - it'll tell you what will work and why, and, as mentioned by Graham, you have to know the rules to break 'em - but without a certain amount of musical ear, and the balls to just try it, your playing risks getting too clinical.

A mate of mine studied at the BIT in London for a couple of years and I met quite a few of the other students. Whilst they were all very competent musicians, some of them (the drummers in particular) were too sterile and "perfect" for my tastes - I like a bit of edge to my music and that's something no amount of theory can teach you.

[funkyassbassplayer]

yeh man, i have only bin paying 18 months now but i only started learning theory bout 8 months ago, i started jsut palying red hot chilli's and well bobbling roung and stuff, but then i thaught id like to know what the fuck is goin on with my mates telling m that a high E scale just wont fit in this song, so i lloked it up and now im no expert but i get it all and i knopw what people are on bout now, so i find it handy and good, but life is fun with no rules to stick by hay?

[retrokris]

ive been playing by ear for nearly 6 years and i can confidently say that i can figure out the key and chord structure of a song at first listen. My way to relax is to sit in front of the music channels and jam along to whatever is on (this also helps develop my stylistics)....However i have begun to learn theory because it is the building blocks of how people play, and also if i wanto get on my degree at BIMM and eventually be a session player i need to undertand how things work and why they do. But i feel i have gone about it the right way because by teaching myself at first i have developed my own playing style, and now learning theory to develop my playing. I feel that learning from scratch from theory can take the soul out of your playing...you need to develop your own personal style....but thats just my opinion

[HowardK]

Lots of good responses here... I'll add my 2ps just for the sake of it

Someone said this was a contraversial topic, I disagree. I see no debate. To be a well rounded musician you have to be able to play by ear AND know your theory.

I 1,000,000% agree that learning parts from records is an utterly essential part of music learning, by doing this you are learning a vocabulary. In the same was as a child learns to speak, you are copying phrases from records tio develop a voice of your own.

However, without any theory when I learnt from a record I would have learnt two things, 1) a fingerboard pattern and 2) to play a part.
Theory allows a deeper understanding of what you're learning. For example, from learning a part I could discover the implied chords, and potentially the key centre, I would hear how the part works over the chords, where tension is created and released, giving me a more meaningful basis for a b'line or solo.

Theory and feel are not mutually exclusive. I'm pretty darned sure Miles Davis knew his theory! By learning a bunch of theory you will not lose any 'feel'.

I've heard the arguement that "by learning theory you are just learning to play what loads of people have played before"... usually coming from people who are playing the "same old shit" because they dont know what came before..

Jazz theory in particular gives a great insight into the develeopment of music over the past 100 years, which makes you better able to play suitable basslines within all sorts of styles. E.g. An old jazz tune, around 1940, you would see a lot of Maj6 chords, and would tend to use a maj pentatonic scale to highlight the 6th. Later, as music developed, the Maj7th chord became popular because it is more dissonant...

The number of famous artists who played jazz who didnt know any theory in the entire history of the genre be counted on one hand!! In fact I can think of only one.

Theory allows you to better communicate with other musicians, instead of "like F, but up one string" you can say BbMaj.. in any case, a keyboard player wont respond too well to "up one string" ;D

When I go out and listen to bands I find I can hear the difference between a bassist who knows their chords, from one that doesnt. Knowing chords and inversions IMMEDIATELY allows you to create more elegant lines (for a more civilised age ).

Flea is a prime example of a bassplayer who doesnt know any theory. He has an incredible feel, but he's spent the past 20 years repeating himself on record.

Dissonance is the basis of modern music. As was said above, "you cant play out unless you play in", mastering dissonance is what making music is all about in my mind and you'll struggle to do this with any real direction without using any theory.

Theory IS intersting!

And lastly... it's head start, someone has worked all this shit out already, why not take advantage, rather than work it all out again!?!

cheese
H

EDIT: Gran Torino, I downloaded your bands wma files, nice grooving!!

[HowardK]

Theory can be usefull but playing an instrument is a form of artistic expression and I find it very difficult to express myself just by learning scales!!
In a writing context don't you think it is better to write music by ear (ie. playing what you think is good) rather than playing something because thats how a text book told you to do it? Ah, but you don't probably write bass lines because you are too busy learning the 'c' major scale!

I'm going to waffle on about this subject cause I think it's worth waffling about...

1stly, theory is a lot more than just scales. Although since you chose the example, the C major scale holds a whole bunch of secrets that I guarantee would develop your playing ten-fold within a year.

I agree that it is always best to play what you hear.

Theory helps you develeop what you hear.


GranTorino, you are a quality player, you have a fine groove (and a quality drummer, lock him in the rehearsal room!).

However, since I can hear every note in your basslines (very clear, nicely played) I know exactly what you're playing. Both the songs are 2 or 3 chord vamps, and your lines are mostly root+5th+octave, minor pentatonic and the odd dorian lick...
Dont get me wrong, it's damned cool, it grooves like a beast, and I often use the same formula myself (if it works, it works!!), but harmonically it is a little repetative to my ears and you could be really boosting what the guitarist is playing by creating a more melodic lines using chord tones or some more intersting scale choices perhaps?

Theory is really NOT about paper and scales etc. It's about assigning a logical format to learning music to help you learn, understand and communicate better. It also helps you hear new things.. I started learning theory about four years ago (after ten years of playing) and I had about a years worth of lessons from Steve Lawson (the solo bass guy), it honestly changed my playing for the better forever. It opened a whole knew aspect of music that I would never go back on. I:m now hearing and using new note choices that I ddnt even know existed four years ago.

Any teacher worth their salt (Steve Lawson is a great teacher), will not just teach you a bunch of scales, they'll introduce it in a way that is creative and intersting and they'll make sure it is in context of what you want to learn.

If you're comfortable with your playing, cool, but I would urge you to find a teacher and give it a go... you can already play, so what harm can it do?!