improvisation tips

[tom from the stoats]

finding 5th made easy using standard tuning
G-------1-------------
D------------1---------
A----------------------
E----------------------
same frett going down a sting

G-----------3---------
D------1--------------
A----------------------
E----------------------
3 fretts away going up a string

octaves
G--------------9-------
D-----------------------
A-----------7-----------
E------------------------
(purple haze)
3 fretts away on opposite strings

[bilbo baggins]

congratulations, you've found octaves and fifths... what a revelation

[De-la]

Peace!!

[hatman]

If Bilbo knows it everyone should

Nice little lesson Tom, Keep em coming.

[De-la]

Is'nt Bilbo from Lord of the Rings? frodo's mate!

[hatman]

Yeah and he's even shorter than me!!

[De-la]

Ha!Ha! Short ass. Ill let you off as you are a master bass comrad though! ;D

[HowardK]

The perfect 5th, being the 5th degree of a scale is always going to be 7 semi-tones (OK, 7 frets) up from the root and 5 semi-tones down.

For example, take A natural minor:

A B C D E F G A

E is the 5th degree of the scale. So, count up 7 frets from the open A string and there's E. Now count down 5 frets from the octave on the A string...

So, a 5th up is the same as a 4th down...

Therefore, E is the 5th of A minor. And A is the 4th of E natural minor...

E F# G A B C D E

Both these minor sclaes use the same pattern of intervals (spaces between each note in the scale). The pattern is as follows, where T = tone (= 2 frets) and s = semi-tone (=1 fret)

T S T T S T T

This gives you the following intervals, in numbers of frets:

Natural 2nd (9th) = 2 frets
minor 3rd = 3 frets
perfect 4th = 5 frets
perfet 5th = 7 frets
minor 6th = 8 frets
minor 7th = 10 frets
octave = 12 frets

It's much more musical to think in terms of harmonic intervals (minor or major 3rd, etc) and/or in terms of actual notes (A, C, C#) than in terms of fret numbers.

Back on topic: as a tip for improvisation: the root + 5th bassline is incredibley versatile and can be used in almost any style to maximum effect. Reggae, rock, funk, jazz, disco, rnb, blues... pretty much any style can make use of this bassline and make it sound gooood!
However, the main benefit or mastering root+5th is that it doenst specify any harmony (major or minor), so you can happily play root+5th around the changes to a song until you figure out what the harmony is and/or hear something else to play... faking it basically!

[Graham]

HowardK said:

The perfect 5th, being the 5th degree of a scale

i have to stupidly pinickity here and point out (not for your sake, im sure you already know, but incase anyone else is interested) that the 5th of a scale is not ALWAYS a perfect fifth from the root - it is in most cases, but for example in the diminished scale (both half step/whole step and whole step/half step) the fifth of the scale is actually a tritone (6 semitones) from the root

A half/whole dim - A Bb C Db Eb E F# G
A whole/half dim - A B C D Eb F F# G#


in the locrian scale, the 7th mode of the major scale, its also a tritone

A locrian - A Bb C D Eb F G


in the whole tone scale the fifth is a minor 6th from the root

A whole tone - A B C# D# F G

and some others (these three being modes of the melodic minor)

lydian augmented - minor 6th
locrian #2 - tritone
altered scale - tritone

[HowardK]

Yeah, I decided to keep it simple for the sake of this topic.

Plus, in 99% of cases you'll find a perfect 5th. And in that 1% of cases where the 5th is diminished or augmented it will usually either say so on the chart, or be specifed in the chord name... or someone will soon let you know when you play the nat5th over the flatted/sharped!

Here's some super-pickyness: the 5th in the whole tone is an audmented 5th, not a minor 6th

[Graham]

well yeah it would make sense to label it as an augmented fifth even though they're both the same interval - i was going to claim simplification reasons as you did, but thinking about it augmented fifth is probably easier understand at first glance [if you didn't already know it] than minor 6th. but then it would have made even more sense to do the same for the lydian augmented, seeing as its actually refferenced in the chord name

something ive found on quite a few occasions up to now - its far to easy to be really anal about music theory ;D

[HowardK]

Amen to that ;D A perfect example follows:

I think the reason for the differentiation is significant...

Augmented 5th means the 5th degree is sharped. whereas minor 6th means the 5th (perfect or diminished) is still present. So the harmony of playing a scale with an augmented 5th over it's derived chord, is different from playing a scale with a minor 6th over it's derived chord, even if the note in question are enharmonic

Question: do you actually think in terms of scales when you play, or create lines?
I find I rarely think in terms of scales, even when I'm playing from a chart, but more in tems of basic harmony, plus colour tones. I.e. I'd use notes from a dim half/whole scale over a functioning V7 chord, but I woundt beccessarily think of the scale, I'd just use the notes.

The only time I find scale choices useful is when "noodling over changes".. which I try to avoid doing most of the time ;D

[GranTorinoBassman]

?? Theory?

I need to get learning I think??

[HowardK]

Generally speaking, music theory is incredibly logical and therefore really easy to learn.

I think the best possible introduction is what is generally called "chord theory" and is mostly associated with jazz, although applies to ALL modern music.

You basically learn about how different types of chord are constructed and how chords can function within a progression.

There are scales etc etc involved, but if you get a good teacher they'll explain it in such a way as it all makes perfect sense. Getting a teacher who knows what they're doing is the key - thankfully, there are plenty of good teachers about!

[GranTorinoBassman]

HowardK said:

Generally speaking, music theory is incredibly logical and therefore really easy to learn.

I think the best possible introduction is what is generally called "chord theory" and is mostly associated with jazz, although applies to ALL modern music.

You basically learn about how different types of chord are constructed and how chords can function within a progression.

There are scales etc etc involved, but if you get a good teacher they'll explain it in such a way as it all makes perfect sense. Getting a teacher who knows what they're doing is the key - thankfully, there are plenty of good teachers about!

Un problemo mon amie

I can't afford a good teacher - Do you know of any good sources that don't cost any money?

P.S. Cheers for the compliments in the other thread